: What do I do when I quote a price for a design but the client keeps asking for revisions and redesigns? I'm a freelance graphic designer, so mostly, my pricing and what not is pretty casual

@Berumen635

"F*ck you, pay me."

Maybe not quite in those words in all possible situations, but you need to always make sure you are in a position where if you had to, you could say exactly that, and back it up.

The quote comes from the title line of a presentation given by Mike Monteiro, which EVERY independent contractor should see: www.dvafoto.com/2011/04/fuck-you-pay-me-a-discussion-of-adventures-in-contracts-negotiation-and-payment/
Basically, it's exactly like Lauren Ipsum says:


NEVER begin work without a contract.
ALWAYS stipulate payment in installments, however you actually structure payments (T&M, fixed price, T&M with not-to-exceed, etc).
ALWAYS describe in the contract exactly what is to be done by you. That way, you can point to the contract if they start becoming unreasonable about the number of revisions/iterations they're asking you to do.
ALWAYS stipulate that "intellectual property transfers on satisfaction of contract". When you have completed the work, they accept it, AND have paid you in full, THEN they own what you've done for them. Until that time, YOU own it, and if they use it, they owe you royalties.
NEVER continue work for a client who is delinquent. You can choose how long to let them slide before you call them delinquent, but basically if you have to call and ask for your money, work on that project stops until you get it.
ALWAYS stipulate that non-performance due to delinquency by the client, in either requirements, approvals or payments, is the fault and responsibility of the client, NOT you. They cannot claim penalties for missed deadlines if they have not held up their end.
ALWAYS stipulate a "kill fee". This fee can be a fixed price, a percentage of the remaining contract, or unpaid T&M (billed at T&M rates, NOT any discounted rate figured into a fixed-price contract). If they want out, they can't hang you out.
ALWAYS include legal fees in stipulated damages. If you require a lawyer's assistance in securing payment, they must pay your lawyer as well. You should never lose money attempting to collect (though in many cases you still will).


These should be agreed to in writing by both you and the client. They are non-negotiable; if they want you to bend on any of this they are looking to shaft you.

In addition, ALWAYS have a lawyer go over any communication you receive from your client requiring a signature, or that you are about to send to your client for signature. Including but not limited to the initial contract, notices, and any re-negs.

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@Berumen635

I think all of us who have done the small free-lance thing have had to deal with this. Most of what I was going to write has already been covered in Stefan's answer, but I have a few more thoughts...

Never ever feel awful about asking for money up front. They are going to have to pay for your service, whether up front or after the fact - so why feel bad about the timing? In general, people pay up-front for everything (or sign a contract to pay later). Your services are not any less valuable than those of other vendors.

The key to this is having a clear definition and agreement. If you have a written agreement, and get part of the money up-front or in stages, it empowers you to dig in your heels and say "this is what you agreed to, and this is what you have paid for". If a client starts to make too many requests, you will have to draw the line.

For what it's worth, below is the workflow guideline that I adhere to. I do most of my work in a small 2-man team and this has worked well for us. Everything is broken down by stage, with requirements to be fulfilled before progressing to the next stage.


Definition

We collaborate with the client to define an detailed spec of the project requirements before we do any work. This involves all of their requirements (layout, colors, branding, time, etc.) all of our requirements (time, money, etc.)

We don't proceed out of this stage until we understand the client, and the client understands us. We typically require a non-refundable payment (generally not 100%, but a significant portion of the project quote) at this point.
Design

Wireframes & sketches are used to knock down a basic layout. Some rough styling will be done, but none of the time-consuming minor tweaks that really polish a design. We don't continue to the next stage until the client agrees that they are happy with the overall design.

If the client wants something that is not part of the agreed project definition, we stop everything and revise the definition & price accordingly.
Refinement

For logos & simple print designs, this is the last phase and just involves polishing the design.

At this point, if the client says "I want to change X about the layout" and it's a nontrivial change, we simple say "sorry, that needed to be done during the Design phase". If they are adamant that they need to make the change, we quote them a price to alter the agreement.
Delivery

The client gets their product. We get any remaining payment. The books are closed and we are done. After this point, any change is treated as a new job and is quoted accordingly.


(If we're doing a website or app, there is also an Assembly and Debugging stage before Delivery.)

Generally we require payment at each major stage. Ie., before Design, before Assembly, before Delivery. This keeps us on equal footing with our clients -- at any point of the game, we have provided part of a product and received part of a payment. If they fire us, we walk away with a clean soul and without having done work for free. This hasn't happened yet, but I don't doubt that it will someday. People are fickle.

I think this equal footing is extremely important. We don't ask too much of them without providing anything in return, and do not give them too much without requiring something in return.

If you devalue your work, a client will not hesitate to increase requirements (by way of revisions, changes, suggestions, etc.) - and if you do not have an agreement in place (and some money in your pocket), you may feel beholden to their requests.

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@Eichhorn212

Most freelancers hate the business side of the graphic design industry, but we all have to deal with it at some point. Yes, write up a contract. If you're just starting and want to keep things simple so not to scare off clients, here are a few points


make a simple contract outlining the most important elements: how many revisions, project/per hour costs, what is expected from each party.
when quoting for a project bullet point where your time will be spent. Include research, communication (emails, phone calls), mock-ups, designing, revisions, uploading, set-up, etc.
over estimate delivery time but give them a realistic timeline. Some clients think a website can be done in two days, and you're going to write all the copy.
If a client seems shady, do yourself a favor and let them go.

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@Speyer780

Stefan has several excellent points, which I'll echo and expand upon:


Write up a contract. You don't start anything without a contract.
It took me over a week to write my first contract, but that baby is
as detailed and iron-clad as I could make it, and now I can
slice-and-dice and adapt it to future jobs. The AIGA has a ridiculously detailed sample contract you can use to start with: www.aiga.org/standard-agreement/ In that contract you spell out precisely what you are doing for the
client. Be repetitive to the point where you feel silly, because it
will save your butt later.
As part of that contract, you specify what amount of money is due
when: deposit of $X or Y%, $X or Y% upon Milepost 1, $X or Y% upon
Milepost 2, remaining $X or last 10% when client signs off on final
product. You want to leave a little at the end so that the client
feels like they can still command your attention, but not so much
that if you had to walk away it would ruin your bank account. I like
10% as my wiggle room.
You include N rounds of revisions. (I usually have three.) You
specify "after N rounds of revisions, any additional revisions will
be billed at $X per hour." That gives them warning right up front
that if they want to go 'round the mulberry bush, you'll be happy to
accommodate them, but they'll be paying for it.
As part of this process, when they send you the first revision, you IMMEDIATELY respond with, "Thank you, I am in receipt of your email with blah blah revision. Per our contract, this is the first round of
revisions to this project." Now, it's up to you what constitutes "a round of revisions." It can be "one large design change," it can be "one hour of little revisions over and over," whatever. But have an idea in mind BEFORE you open the file.
You do the same with the second round. At the third round, you
respond, "I just want to remind you before I start that this is your
last round of revisions allotted in our contract. After this,
subsequent changes will be billed on a per-hour basis and invoiced
[weekly]."
Include a Kill Fee or a cancellation fee. The idea is that you always get paid for your time and effort, no matter where they stop in the process. You can pro-rate it to an hourly cost from the last pay milestone to the cancellation point. That will also give them pause.
Don't be shy about asking for money. If you're a professional, act
like one. Would your plumber be shy about sending you a bill? You are
a professional providing a service. It's not your fault if they don't
like the service; you still had to do the work. Of course you want
them to be happy, but you also need to pay your grocery bill.


Basically, don't do more work than you agreed to before they agree to pay you for it. When you're reaching your estimate, STOP and tell them so.

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@Goswami567

Welcome to the World of Graphic Design... lol.. you see their mind is growing with ideas because now it's trial and error to them. You give them a time limit. You know the job takes you 10 hours to do. You tell them how long it takes without revisions, offer 2 revisions then tell them to pay per revision there after. You shouldn't have to explain why, just like their time is valuable so is yours.

You'll hear them say they can get a logo for . Good, they will hate it, will be paying extra for revisions and will wish they went with you. They want to pay s**t, they will get just that.

Always get half up front. People pay for products and services upfront all the time and you have no reason to explain yourself. Once they pay some, there is an obligation to stay with your service. They obviously seen your work and they need to work with you, you don't work for them.

Another good thing is having them sign a small contract of exactly what you are doing, in an email or in person, and that's what you do for them. 10 hours 9 of which is you designing, the other hour is broken up into revisions not new layouts.

It's a tough business and you will constantly get a**holes but don't fret there are people that value a good graphic designer. If they want to hire you on a day rate then you get paid, as well.

It's all in the questions and letting them know you are as busy and important as they are. You'll probably get tons of answers here and I vote we all pitch in and make a mighty post on handling clients before they have a chance to take advantage of kindness.

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@Gail6891361

One way is to estimate in hours, not dollar amounts and make it clear that you are billing hourly.

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