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Kaufman565

: Best way to send layouts with editable text to writers/editors who don't have design software Here's a common design workflow problem, probably most relevant to in-house designers, but also to

@Kaufman565

Posted in: #AdobeIllustrator #AdobeIndesign #BestPractice #Pdf #Workflow

Here's a common design workflow problem, probably most relevant to in-house designers, but also to agencies who have a lot of non-design writing or research staff, or freelancers who work with in-house writers. Many designers encounter it and have a way of dealing with it: I'm interested in what our collective design experience can come up with for the best way to deal with it.

Here's the problem:


I'm making a text-and-images layout, and I need to send early drafts to writers for copy editing.
These writers don't have design software and never will: buying it in isn't an option. Assume they have MS Office, and that maybe one person in the office has Acrobat but they can't access it easily. (In my case, these people are writers and research experts, there are loads of them, and copy writing and editing for designs is a small portion of what they do)
The copy editing is somewhat dependant on the layout: the writers need to be able to see the flow of the page to see how each chunk fits in, and how much space they have for each chunk. I'm thinking of cases like infographics and diagrams with detailed labels where the text, imagery and layout go hand-in-hand, rather than cases like books or magazine layouts where we'd just say "give the designer between XXX and YYY words and trust them".
The layout at this stage doesn't need to be exact on their end, but they need to be able to get an idea of it. It doesn't matter if what they send back to me is a bit of a mess visually, I'll just be extracting and using their editted text


So, what are the best methods for giving people an editable rough approximation of a layout?

Any answer should ideally be better than my current method - which is to email around PDFs showing the rough layout alongside flat Word documents with the text, hoping that the writers will understand and respect the layout and understand how much space they have... They rarely do... and since copy writing and editing for designs is a small portion of what they do, this is not likely to change.

Ideally, it should be less clunky and time-consuming than creating a separate PDF form and re-creating every text box as an input element to create a sort-of editable PDF, or, re-creating an approximation of the layout by hand in something like Word.

I'll accept answers starting with any common design software. In my case it's mostly Illustrator, but tricks that work starting with designs in InDesign, Photoshop, Corel, Inkcape etc are all relevant.

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@Rambettina927

I work in the publishing industry for 15 years and this is a challenge indeed. My conclusion is the workflow must change; so far there's no perfect solution to that issue. If the editor saves time, you don't. If you save time, he doesn't ;)

Most editors don't have an Adobe subscription. In this case, forget about InCopy and especially forget about giving your editable files.

Saving a PDF as text will force you to re-insert all the revised text back into Indesign. If you're alright with this, it can work for you. It's ok for a flyer, but that's another story for books. I also discovered I get better flowing sentences when exporting from PDF to XML/HTML than .doc. Converting to Word from PDF can sometimes break your all the sentences and creates "false" hyphenations.


In any case, big editing should always be done BEFORE the layout. For
proofreading, it's different because the revisions are usually small
and there's no big editing required. A responsible (or aware) client
will first pay a real editor to review the text structure, verify
sources, separate chapters & paragraphs, etc. Then a proofreader will
be paid to have another look at the file and focus on grammar. These 2
jobs are totally different even though a lot of proofreaders love to
call themselves editors. Then finally, a final text is given to the
designer, a proof will be produced, sent to the proofreader and minor
adjustments will be made. Until the proof is fully approved. That's the real workflow for this and by far
the most efficient for everybody and the most economical in time and money. Maybe you simply cannot do it this way though.


Indesign with a linked text/Word file

Unless you imported your Word file into Indesign as a link, that Word file will not update the text within Indesign even if it's modified. But it's possible to link a Word file the same way you link an image in Indesign, and when the Word file gets updated, the Indesign text will also get updated. It doesn't work the other way around though; changing the text in Indesign will not update the Word file!

So that's still an option if the editor only need to do proofreading and basic editing. Not very good for real editing (eg. changing a whole sentence to something else, adding sentences, etc.) It's another kind of workflow that has some limits, for example you might need to adjust the Indesign file after an update if you had a lot of graphical elements mixed with the text. That solution is better for reports, novels, technical sheets, etc.

Without seeing your layout, it seems to be the closest you can get to "[editors] can edit within the layout, or at least, within an approximation of that layout."

The editor can see an approximation of the design since you can match your stylesheets from Word with Indesign. So even when they update some text style in Word, it will update in Indesign too (if you want). I think you could always add the images in the word file but force InDesign to ignore them; adding the images in Word would only serve as a reference for the editors/proofreaders.

Adobe Acrobat Comments

That's the way I found the most flexible, versatile and efficient so far. Anyone can use Acrobatto add comments, it leaves a track of the changes, it's easy to follow, there's even checkboxes to mark revisions that have been done or not, etc.

It doesn't destroy your layout but you need to update each revision one by one in Indesign or the software you used for the layout...! So yes, that option can be a bit depressing when you didn't get a final text and you receive a PDF with 150 comments.

See more details here:

How to add hidden notes to developers within designs mockups?

Other

There's plugins available for this. Unfortunately I cannot recommend any as I never fully tested them on Indesign or Adobe products. But you can always investigate this.

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@Annie732

I just accidentally stumbled over this today doing something completely different, and had to go back and try it out, and it looks like it may actually work. I have only done it with a single .ai artboard so far; I haven't tried multiple pages.


Save .ai file as a pdf. (I have .ai 5.5)
Open the pdf in Adobe Acrobat Pro (I have 10.1.15)
Save As: Microsoft Word.
It took about a minute to transform into a Word doc, and the Word file was about 7MB, but it kept it's layout and type maleability perfectly, so if your copywriter wanted to change the text or layout slightly it looks like it would work.


I've been looking for this functionality for years! Is this a new function? I had never seen it before, but it looks like it works! (I'm still in disbelief). Has this been around forever and I've just been living under a rock? Quite possible.

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@Looi7658678

In case anyone is still trying to solve this problem, go to adobe acrobat professional and export to PPT. Works wonderfully!

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@Merenda852

Have you tried an online proofing tool like ProofHQ? It allows you to share over 100 media types and those reviewers/commenters don't need the original app it was created in loaded. so, internal or external folks who need to contribute, can, without being a designer themselves.

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@Tiffany317

What you need is an InCopy with InDesign workflow. InCopy does exactly what you require (and is made for exactly this task). There is nothing else out there, frankly, that doesn't involve klugy workarounds.

With InCopy, your copy editors and writers work with the exact layout, they can see exactly how the copy flows and where it will overset, but they can't change the layout or mess up the design. It's not a steep learning curve for an experienced copywriter. You also have exact Paragraph Styles they can work with, so you're never in doubt as to what will end up in the layout. Anne-Marie Concepcion, who is one of the best in the business on this subject, has tons of information here and on lynda.com. There's an excellent white paper here.

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@LarsenBagley460

I've been doing my own research and found an option that seems to work okay. It gives the writer an imperfect but near-accurate version of the layout to work in, and takes almost no time away from real work to produce it.

It's based on turning a PDF into a Word doc... the very idea of which makes me feel unclean... but it seems to work, and the copywriter I used as an experimental guinea pig said he found it easier to work to set layouts this way.


Source a program that does a half-way decent job of turning PDFs into Word documents. Nitro PDF Pro is surprisingly okay/non-awful so far, and there's a free online version if you don't mind waiting 20 minutes and trusting your work with a remote 3rd party service. I've also seen a recommendation for this other free online tool but have not tried it
Save / export as a PDF, use said tool to convert it
(optional) Wash your hands and face, and ask for forgiveness from the Design Gods
(optional) Add track changes, notes and some ugly yellow Word highlighting to key bits needing particular attention, to remind everyone involved (including yourself) that it isn't supposed to look good, it's a Word document... and that those bits where text is getting randomly clipped are okay for this, really, they are okay...
Send it to the copy writers or editors with clear instructions
Copy their edits back into the real design program, and cast that word doc - which is by now probably grotesquely deformed - into the abyss, never to be spoken of again. It has fulfilled its purpose.

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@Speyer780

It doesn't matter if what they send back to me is a bit of a mess visually, I'll just be extracting and using their edited text


If you don't need them to present you with a clean layout, then I actually think your current solution is the best one, with a bit of tweaking.

Mark up the layout (in the layout program) with the problem spots. Put a big red box around the overset text, or color it magenta, or whatever. Say something in the email like, "you see the highlighted section? I need you to cut about 20 words from that. Please edit the Word document accordingly."

Export a regular PDF with the rough layout, and attach a Word document. Then the writer edits the Word document, which you re-lay, and from there you can fine-tune.

Maybe the problematic part of the process is that you're not giving the writers clear direction about what needs to occur for you to solve the layout issue.

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@Megan533

If you've got the copy already, can't you copy / paste it into the document and then export a pdf? That's what I usually do. Changes to copy can me made fairly quickly within Illustrator / InDesign / etc., and seeing the actual copy in situ is often helpful if I'm trying to make a point like "we need to trim the amount of copy down" or "this list of items should really be presented in such and such a way".

If I'm just dealing with the layout (or don't have copy yet) I still like Lorem Ipsum. True, you have to explain what "that Latin stuff" is from time to time, but it's still a very effective method of showing text flow, etc. I still send a .pdf file since it's a de facto standard and doesn't require a financial layout for the reader (for the record, you can also open Illustrator files in Acrobat Reader).

If you've got a client who has a computer but refuses to install a .pdf reader in this day and age it seems a little odd - for straightforward review of documents it's the easiest and cheapest method of sharing (and was in fact invented for this very reason). It puts me in mind of a client I was doing web layout for that, up until a couple of months ago, insisted on viewing all of the pages using IE6. Perhaps you could suggest that they install Acrobat Reader (or their preferred free .pdf reader) as a method of "streamlining the review process" (or some other politically correct euphemism). They may also be able to view the file directly in a web browser without having to install a .pdf reader (your results may vary depending on browser and version).

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